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21 notes &

Wanted to clear the air on a few things.

shortforabaddon:

First of all, to the SQ shippers who witnessed the disagreement I had with one or two of your shipmates, I wanted to apologize. I sometimes forget that the people I talk to online are human beings with human emotions and I did go off on a tangent. It was very out of line for me to do that and I’m…

Hmm, the “majority” of the fandom would be happy with a token queer played by a recurring character who regardless of how “busy” they are will not be regulars because the cast is already huge.

Sorry, but we’ve been teased with 2 LEAD actresses for 3 seasons. This isn’t the Glee fandom where people will be happy with two minutes of Brittana as opposed to seasons of canon Faberry. There are plenty of other women around that Hook can moon after: Tinkerbell, Ariel, Snow, Zelena, etc.

Also, to be clear, the entire media except Lily has been drooling over Hook to the point many don’t want him around at all, which isn’t helpful to Hook fans at all. Lily’s reviews have been a light in the darkness for many of us & your insults do not help your argument at all.

115 notes &

Anonymous asked: Now I've seen the info about the sqdocumentary and maybe they do have a point in that yes lgbtq should probably be more representative in America(?) or is it the world they want to change or just American tv and media? Not so clear. I mean my country, Sweden, has pretty good representation and we're taking it to the next level and including the whole lgbtq(we're not perfect but maybe a little bit further). Right now they just seem to want to talk about themselves than anything else, really.

ouatqueer-antisq:

giftofamber:

nothingeverlost:

giftofamber:

graphaks:

lessawildmoon:

graphaks:

lessawildmoon:

ouatqueer-antisq:

graphaks:

bnaz:

ouatqueer-antisq:

If they were talking about a documentary about the need for queer representation in American media I would be 200% pro this documentary.  But that’s not what it’s about.  It’s about SQ representation on the show.

However, there has been much backlash toward the Swan Queen fandom due to it connecting two women romantically on what some like to call a “family show”. Instead of fighting back with negativity, the Swan Queen Movement grew. The Movement set out to “Kill’em with kindness”. The mission was to change the perception of our rather large group by spreading messages of equality, kindness, love and inclusiveness. 

The backlash to SQ isn’t about the fact that it’s linking two women romantically.  It’s about these specific women and the reasons many people don’t want them together.  As Eddy answered, one of them is the daughter of Snow White and Prince Charming and the other is the reason she grew up alone.  Regina tried to kill Emma the day she was born and many times since that.  People have many reasons other than gender that they don’t like the ship.  The biggest backlash, though, is to the SQ shippers themselves, and the bullying they do.  The BAs that call people homophobic.    The way they use offensive phrases like penis parade.  The bi erasure and hurtful things they say to other queer people who don’t share their ship.

The message I personally have gotten from the BAs in the SQ fandom has been inequality, rudeness, hate and exclusiveness. 

My biggest reason for not liking this domumentary is that I don’t want anyone to think that they are the representation of the fandom.  I get wanting your ship to happen, but crying that it’s homophobia and trying to force it to happen makes me really upset.  The idea that they sell themselves as representing the queer community and then turn around and insult anyone with a penis and hurt queer people that don’t ship SQ is insulting and hurtful.

Or maybe you could ask US instead so we can explain exactly what the documentary is about instead of speculating.

Usually this kind of commentary comes from folks that actually harbor a bit of fear towards something like this succeeding. Clearly they are willing to spend time talking about it. Only makes it that much more important.

I do fear this documentary succeeding because the SQ fandom is not representative of the LGBQTIA community.  There are many wonderful people in the SQ fandom. There are also horrible examples to people being told they are homophobic for not shipping it.  Queer people are being told that they are homophobic because of a fictional ship that is about more than gender.  I have experienced bi erasure.  I have seen hurtful phrases like penis parade used.

I have never experienced mare exclusion from the queer community than from BAs in the SQ fandom that have told people that they can’t really be lesbian if they don’t ship SQ, or that they’re self hating if they don’t ship it, or homophobic.

Queer issues and queer representation is very important, but trying to get it while hurting others in the queer community makes no sense to me.  And while I want more queer characters on TV I don’t want to continue the ‘queer as villain’ trope.  Regina is a murder/abuser and that’s why I don’t want SQ.  Nothing to do with them both being women.  

So yes, you could say I fear this suceeding.  I don’t want the world at large or the production staff at OUAT to thing that SQ shippers speak for the whole community.  And the idea of the SQ ship has been addressed multiple times by A&E.  They specifically said it’s not happening.  I don’t see the point in lying and saying it hasn’t been addressed.

Exactly, the only homophobia I have ever come across in this fandom has been from SQ shippers. (Which is not to say it doesn’t happen from others, but this is all I have seen). As a queer woman I do not like the idea of SQ shippers speaking for me. As a rape victim, I really don’t want a rapist representing me. 

If you want to make a documentary about Queer representation that is great, but don’t centre it around a ship that is not only complete fanon (and has been confirmed as not happening by the writers), but whose fans are famous for being exclusionary to queers.

If you don’t wish to participate, then don’t. Those of us that do, will. Seems simple to me. I’m afraid arguing about who or what the right kind of SQ fan is will just lead to a stalemate, because it’s up to each of us individually to decide how we participate in this fandom. All SQ fans are important and all contribute to the fandom in many lovely, creative ways and this is just one of them. You’re all important but let’s live and let live. Do what you can to make the best of SQ, but don’t tear down others in the process. Maybe do something separate that stands on it’s own showing your perspective on SQ? Maybe create something telling Adam and Eddy that you’re perfectly satisfied with SQ as it is and not to change a thing? Everyone has their own perspective.

Peace.

Saying “If you don’t wish to participate, then don’t” is like saying if you don’t like saying if you don’t like slavery just don’t participate. When someone is doing something that hurts a group of people, just standing back is not enough. 

This has nothing to do with SQ as a ship, I’m sure most SQ shippers are as disgusted as the rest of the fandom. There are lots of lovely SQ shippers out there. 

This is about a group of people who think it is OK to trivialise the very real fight queer people fight every day by using it as a tool to force the A&E to talk about their ship. As well as being offensive, that is actively harmful to the fight for queer rights. 

Queer fans are regularly queer bashed by SQ shippers. One of the people who spoke up against this was told she couldn’t be a real lesbian if she didn’t ship SQ.

If The SQM want to make a film advocating their ship that is fine, but they shouldn’t be claiming to speak for the queer community when SQ are famous for being exclusionary to anyone who isn’t a SQ shipping cis lesbian.

And seriously, let’s don’t equate a lovely bunch of fan girls and their project with slavery. That’s just in poor taste.

Have a nice evening.

I see a number of people being antagonistic & attacking fellow queers & it isn’t SWEN. But hey, who needs facts when we can attack each other & do the work of the anti-queer movement for us?

P.S. The evil queer trope is why Emma is a key factor in the pairing. Regina being saved by her love for a woman & turned good would turn the evil queer trope on its head.

This is not an attack.  It is tagged ‘anti SQ’ and if SQ shippers want to troll the anti tags to cause trouble that’s their issue.  But people are allowed to vent about things that they’re upset about.

This blog was started because of all the queer people that feel ostracized by a portion of the SQ fandom claiming to speak for the LGBQTIA community and telling other queer people that they’re wrong for not supporting a ship.  Queer people have been called homophobic and self hating.  There have been examples of bi erasure and offensive comments like ‘penis parade.’  This is a fact.  It’s not an attack, it’s people who have been hurt having a place to vent.

Of course this is not all of the SQ shippers, but it is happening and queer people are getting hurt.

You are welcome to view SQ as turning a trope on its head.  Others don’t see it that way, and are free to disagree.

I saw this on my dashboard, not in a tag, and what bothered me was that it was attacking the shippers, not just the ship.  If you don’t support the ship, fine, don’t ship it. It’s no skin off my nose.

For the record, the term “penis parade” came about because this show used to be a show about strong women, but the show has been giving so much attention and screentime to the men on the show at the expense of the women that it has basically become a different show.  It has absolutely nothing to do with shipping preferences and is simply a frustration with the lead females losing screentime and not being able to show off their acting skills.

The original post was talking very specifically about the shippers that bully and call people homophobic, not all SQ shippers.  The SQ shippers that commit bi erasure and those that claim to represent the queer community but hurt queer people with their exclusive language.   I’m sorry it came across your dash but that’s because a SQ shipper reblogged it.  It wasn’t tagged anything but anti SQ.

The blog exists both as a safe place for people to vent and a place to talk about other queer ships in the fandom because SQ is not all inclusive and there are other ships.

Your assumption right here in using ‘penis parade’ is that men have penises and women don’t.  That’s very hurtful and untrue, and a good example of why SQ represents a part of the LGBQTIA community but not nearly all of it.

People are free to ship or not ship anything.  It the fact that people are called homophobic or have their sexual identity questioned that troubles me.  And that’s why I talk about the BAs in the fandom.  Not all of fandom.

My assumption was that these particular men have penises, not that all men do. That would be ridiculous. If the term bothers you so much, how about you suggest a new one for us to use & if people like it, it’ll stick. Seriously, we’re open to suggestions.

115 notes &

Anonymous asked: Now I've seen the info about the sqdocumentary and maybe they do have a point in that yes lgbtq should probably be more representative in America(?) or is it the world they want to change or just American tv and media? Not so clear. I mean my country, Sweden, has pretty good representation and we're taking it to the next level and including the whole lgbtq(we're not perfect but maybe a little bit further). Right now they just seem to want to talk about themselves than anything else, really.

nothingeverlost:

giftofamber:

graphaks:

lessawildmoon:

graphaks:

lessawildmoon:

ouatqueer-antisq:

graphaks:

bnaz:

ouatqueer-antisq:

If they were talking about a documentary about the need for queer representation in American media I would be 200% pro this documentary.  But that’s not what it’s about.  It’s about SQ representation on the show.

However, there has been much backlash toward the Swan Queen fandom due to it connecting two women romantically on what some like to call a “family show”. Instead of fighting back with negativity, the Swan Queen Movement grew. The Movement set out to “Kill’em with kindness”. The mission was to change the perception of our rather large group by spreading messages of equality, kindness, love and inclusiveness. 

The backlash to SQ isn’t about the fact that it’s linking two women romantically.  It’s about these specific women and the reasons many people don’t want them together.  As Eddy answered, one of them is the daughter of Snow White and Prince Charming and the other is the reason she grew up alone.  Regina tried to kill Emma the day she was born and many times since that.  People have many reasons other than gender that they don’t like the ship.  The biggest backlash, though, is to the SQ shippers themselves, and the bullying they do.  The BAs that call people homophobic.    The way they use offensive phrases like penis parade.  The bi erasure and hurtful things they say to other queer people who don’t share their ship.

The message I personally have gotten from the BAs in the SQ fandom has been inequality, rudeness, hate and exclusiveness. 

My biggest reason for not liking this domumentary is that I don’t want anyone to think that they are the representation of the fandom.  I get wanting your ship to happen, but crying that it’s homophobia and trying to force it to happen makes me really upset.  The idea that they sell themselves as representing the queer community and then turn around and insult anyone with a penis and hurt queer people that don’t ship SQ is insulting and hurtful.

Or maybe you could ask US instead so we can explain exactly what the documentary is about instead of speculating.

Usually this kind of commentary comes from folks that actually harbor a bit of fear towards something like this succeeding. Clearly they are willing to spend time talking about it. Only makes it that much more important.

I do fear this documentary succeeding because the SQ fandom is not representative of the LGBQTIA community.  There are many wonderful people in the SQ fandom. There are also horrible examples to people being told they are homophobic for not shipping it.  Queer people are being told that they are homophobic because of a fictional ship that is about more than gender.  I have experienced bi erasure.  I have seen hurtful phrases like penis parade used.

I have never experienced mare exclusion from the queer community than from BAs in the SQ fandom that have told people that they can’t really be lesbian if they don’t ship SQ, or that they’re self hating if they don’t ship it, or homophobic.

Queer issues and queer representation is very important, but trying to get it while hurting others in the queer community makes no sense to me.  And while I want more queer characters on TV I don’t want to continue the ‘queer as villain’ trope.  Regina is a murder/abuser and that’s why I don’t want SQ.  Nothing to do with them both being women.  

So yes, you could say I fear this suceeding.  I don’t want the world at large or the production staff at OUAT to thing that SQ shippers speak for the whole community.  And the idea of the SQ ship has been addressed multiple times by A&E.  They specifically said it’s not happening.  I don’t see the point in lying and saying it hasn’t been addressed.

Exactly, the only homophobia I have ever come across in this fandom has been from SQ shippers. (Which is not to say it doesn’t happen from others, but this is all I have seen). As a queer woman I do not like the idea of SQ shippers speaking for me. As a rape victim, I really don’t want a rapist representing me. 

If you want to make a documentary about Queer representation that is great, but don’t centre it around a ship that is not only complete fanon (and has been confirmed as not happening by the writers), but whose fans are famous for being exclusionary to queers.

If you don’t wish to participate, then don’t. Those of us that do, will. Seems simple to me. I’m afraid arguing about who or what the right kind of SQ fan is will just lead to a stalemate, because it’s up to each of us individually to decide how we participate in this fandom. All SQ fans are important and all contribute to the fandom in many lovely, creative ways and this is just one of them. You’re all important but let’s live and let live. Do what you can to make the best of SQ, but don’t tear down others in the process. Maybe do something separate that stands on it’s own showing your perspective on SQ? Maybe create something telling Adam and Eddy that you’re perfectly satisfied with SQ as it is and not to change a thing? Everyone has their own perspective.

Peace.

Saying “If you don’t wish to participate, then don’t” is like saying if you don’t like saying if you don’t like slavery just don’t participate. When someone is doing something that hurts a group of people, just standing back is not enough. 

This has nothing to do with SQ as a ship, I’m sure most SQ shippers are as disgusted as the rest of the fandom. There are lots of lovely SQ shippers out there. 

This is about a group of people who think it is OK to trivialise the very real fight queer people fight every day by using it as a tool to force the A&E to talk about their ship. As well as being offensive, that is actively harmful to the fight for queer rights. 

Queer fans are regularly queer bashed by SQ shippers. One of the people who spoke up against this was told she couldn’t be a real lesbian if she didn’t ship SQ.

If The SQM want to make a film advocating their ship that is fine, but they shouldn’t be claiming to speak for the queer community when SQ are famous for being exclusionary to anyone who isn’t a SQ shipping cis lesbian.

And seriously, let’s don’t equate a lovely bunch of fan girls and their project with slavery. That’s just in poor taste.

Have a nice evening.

I see a number of people being antagonistic & attacking fellow queers & it isn’t SWEN. But hey, who needs facts when we can attack each other & do the work of the anti-queer movement for us?

P.S. The evil queer trope is why Emma is a key factor in the pairing. Regina being saved by her love for a woman & turned good would turn the evil queer trope on its head.

This is not an attack.  It is tagged ‘anti SQ’ and if SQ shippers want to troll the anti tags to cause trouble that’s their issue.  But people are allowed to vent about things that they’re upset about.

This blog was started because of all the queer people that feel ostracized by a portion of the SQ fandom claiming to speak for the LGBQTIA community and telling other queer people that they’re wrong for not supporting a ship.  Queer people have been called homophobic and self hating.  There have been examples of bi erasure and offensive comments like ‘penis parade.’  This is a fact.  It’s not an attack, it’s people who have been hurt having a place to vent.

Of course this is not all of the SQ shippers, but it is happening and queer people are getting hurt.

You are welcome to view SQ as turning a trope on its head.  Others don’t see it that way, and are free to disagree.

I saw this on my dashboard, not in a tag, and what bothered me was that it was attacking the shippers, not just the ship.  If you don’t support the ship, fine, don’t ship it. It’s no skin off my nose.

For the record, the term “penis parade” came about because this show used to be a show about strong women, but the show has been giving so much attention and screentime to the men on the show at the expense of the women that it has basically become a different show.  It has absolutely nothing to do with shipping preferences and is simply a frustration with the lead females losing screentime and not being able to show off their acting skills.

115 notes &

Anonymous asked: Now I've seen the info about the sqdocumentary and maybe they do have a point in that yes lgbtq should probably be more representative in America(?) or is it the world they want to change or just American tv and media? Not so clear. I mean my country, Sweden, has pretty good representation and we're taking it to the next level and including the whole lgbtq(we're not perfect but maybe a little bit further). Right now they just seem to want to talk about themselves than anything else, really.

graphaks:

lessawildmoon:

graphaks:

lessawildmoon:

ouatqueer-antisq:

graphaks:

bnaz:

ouatqueer-antisq:

If they were talking about a documentary about the need for queer representation in American media I would be 200% pro this documentary.  But that’s not what it’s about.  It’s about SQ representation on the show.

However, there has been much backlash toward the Swan Queen fandom due to it connecting two women romantically on what some like to call a “family show”. Instead of fighting back with negativity, the Swan Queen Movement grew. The Movement set out to “Kill’em with kindness”. The mission was to change the perception of our rather large group by spreading messages of equality, kindness, love and inclusiveness. 

The backlash to SQ isn’t about the fact that it’s linking two women romantically.  It’s about these specific women and the reasons many people don’t want them together.  As Eddy answered, one of them is the daughter of Snow White and Prince Charming and the other is the reason she grew up alone.  Regina tried to kill Emma the day she was born and many times since that.  People have many reasons other than gender that they don’t like the ship.  The biggest backlash, though, is to the SQ shippers themselves, and the bullying they do.  The BAs that call people homophobic.    The way they use offensive phrases like penis parade.  The bi erasure and hurtful things they say to other queer people who don’t share their ship.

The message I personally have gotten from the BAs in the SQ fandom has been inequality, rudeness, hate and exclusiveness. 

My biggest reason for not liking this domumentary is that I don’t want anyone to think that they are the representation of the fandom.  I get wanting your ship to happen, but crying that it’s homophobia and trying to force it to happen makes me really upset.  The idea that they sell themselves as representing the queer community and then turn around and insult anyone with a penis and hurt queer people that don’t ship SQ is insulting and hurtful.

Or maybe you could ask US instead so we can explain exactly what the documentary is about instead of speculating.

Usually this kind of commentary comes from folks that actually harbor a bit of fear towards something like this succeeding. Clearly they are willing to spend time talking about it. Only makes it that much more important.

I do fear this documentary succeeding because the SQ fandom is not representative of the LGBQTIA community.  There are many wonderful people in the SQ fandom. There are also horrible examples to people being told they are homophobic for not shipping it.  Queer people are being told that they are homophobic because of a fictional ship that is about more than gender.  I have experienced bi erasure.  I have seen hurtful phrases like penis parade used.

I have never experienced mare exclusion from the queer community than from BAs in the SQ fandom that have told people that they can’t really be lesbian if they don’t ship SQ, or that they’re self hating if they don’t ship it, or homophobic.

Queer issues and queer representation is very important, but trying to get it while hurting others in the queer community makes no sense to me.  And while I want more queer characters on TV I don’t want to continue the ‘queer as villain’ trope.  Regina is a murder/abuser and that’s why I don’t want SQ.  Nothing to do with them both being women.  

So yes, you could say I fear this suceeding.  I don’t want the world at large or the production staff at OUAT to thing that SQ shippers speak for the whole community.  And the idea of the SQ ship has been addressed multiple times by A&E.  They specifically said it’s not happening.  I don’t see the point in lying and saying it hasn’t been addressed.

Exactly, the only homophobia I have ever come across in this fandom has been from SQ shippers. (Which is not to say it doesn’t happen from others, but this is all I have seen). As a queer woman I do not like the idea of SQ shippers speaking for me. As a rape victim, I really don’t want a rapist representing me. 

If you want to make a documentary about Queer representation that is great, but don’t centre it around a ship that is not only complete fanon (and has been confirmed as not happening by the writers), but whose fans are famous for being exclusionary to queers.

If you don’t wish to participate, then don’t. Those of us that do, will. Seems simple to me. I’m afraid arguing about who or what the right kind of SQ fan is will just lead to a stalemate, because it’s up to each of us individually to decide how we participate in this fandom. All SQ fans are important and all contribute to the fandom in many lovely, creative ways and this is just one of them. You’re all important but let’s live and let live. Do what you can to make the best of SQ, but don’t tear down others in the process. Maybe do something separate that stands on it’s own showing your perspective on SQ? Maybe create something telling Adam and Eddy that you’re perfectly satisfied with SQ as it is and not to change a thing? Everyone has their own perspective.

Peace.

Saying “If you don’t wish to participate, then don’t” is like saying if you don’t like saying if you don’t like slavery just don’t participate. When someone is doing something that hurts a group of people, just standing back is not enough. 

This has nothing to do with SQ as a ship, I’m sure most SQ shippers are as disgusted as the rest of the fandom. There are lots of lovely SQ shippers out there. 

This is about a group of people who think it is OK to trivialise the very real fight queer people fight every day by using it as a tool to force the A&E to talk about their ship. As well as being offensive, that is actively harmful to the fight for queer rights. 

Queer fans are regularly queer bashed by SQ shippers. One of the people who spoke up against this was told she couldn’t be a real lesbian if she didn’t ship SQ.

If The SQM want to make a film advocating their ship that is fine, but they shouldn’t be claiming to speak for the queer community when SQ are famous for being exclusionary to anyone who isn’t a SQ shipping cis lesbian.

And seriously, let’s don’t equate a lovely bunch of fan girls and their project with slavery. That’s just in poor taste.

Have a nice evening.

I see a number of people being antagonistic & attacking fellow queers & it isn’t SWEN. But hey, who needs facts when we can attack each other & do the work of the anti-queer movement for us?

P.S. The evil queer trope is why Emma is a key factor in the pairing. Regina being saved by her love for a woman & turned good would turn the evil queer trope on its head.

44 notes &

On Swan Queen endgame and the media landscape

bythedawn:

This post is a reaction to this reply to my previous post, talking about Swan Queen endgame and the current storylines of CS and OQ. Cropping the reaction left by stefandlenaadamsfoster, the feedback was:

“The main problem that I have with all of this is that on most shows where this dynamic is at play, the general audience is completely aware of what’s going on. It’s the right time to reveal that one of them likes girls, at least some of the time. As soon as you acknowledge that one of them is open to dating girls, a lot of the crackship stuff might be lessened.”

I wanted to reply to this because all of this is so true, yet so completely impossible that it becomes a very complicated mess. This is going to be a queer thing, so if you are not in the mood for talk about how the world is a sad, sad, place for queer representation, I suggest you skip this one. Happy ending implied, though!

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Speaking for myself, I would be perfectly willing to give them time if they would stop throwing men at our girls. The fact that they repeatedly say look, she’s not gay, she has a ton of men falling for her, makes me as a viewer incredibly offended and quit watching. What’s even worse is that if any of the heterosexual pairings take off, the network wouldn’t ever take the risk of Swan Queen.

No matter how many men are thrown their way, I will never buy them as bisexual because they read so heavily as closet cases, and yes, if you look, there are indications of their interest in women in the first 3 seasons beyond just each other, but it’s also clear they are terrified to act on it & are trying to play straight & it hurts to watch.